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What do you want to understand better about photography?

Discussion in 'Photography' started by JohnRice, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    It’s just different values John. You are looking at it from your industry perspective and others have different priorities. And honestly new toys are fun, so someone trying to yuck their yum is never going to go over well.

    I fall on the side of encouraging people to enjoy their journey however they see fit. I will give advice when asked and don’t get offended if it’s ignored or never asked for.

    It doesn’t matter what brand of motorcycle other people ride.
     
  2. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I have similar feelings, John -- "it's the archer, not the arrows" is a favorite saying. As Sam pointed out, though, there are a lot of gadget geeks out there who love new toys. I like new toys, too, but the equipment keeps getting more and more expensive, with less and less gains in image quality or features.

    I'm at a point where my equipment is good enough for what I shoot. My Canon 5D Mark III is now over 6 years old (it was my first full frame dSLR), yet I don't feel the need to upgrade to the Mark IV version. I may eventually consider Canon's full frame mirrorless as a replacement, but am in no hurry to do so. I actually am using my smaller crop sensor mirrorless Canon M50 more, as it's a lot more portable than my big dSLRs and lenses. It was the only camera I took recently to Mackinac Island, and I think I'll do the same when we go to the Florida Keys in February.
     
  3. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    What I take exception to, and where I confront them, is when I get comments that are essentially, "I have a 105mm f/1.4 that has creamy bokeh, so I'm a better photographer than you are." Of course, most of them are incapable of getting their subject out of dead center in the image. How about an effort at composition, folks? I am so @^%W sick of hearing about freaking bokeh. I mean, I never even heard that word until about ten years ago, and I graduated from one of the top photography schools in the country. The basic concept did exist, but nobody talked about it, never mind being completely obsessed with it. There is more to a camera than its high ISO performance.
     
  4. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    One of the comments that bugs me is when someone looks at one of my photos and says "that's a nice photo, you must have a really nice camera". Would that person say to a chef "that was a nice meal, you must have some really nice pots and pans"? :rolleyes: As I've said before, you could give Ansel Adams a homemade pinhole camera and he could create a masterpiece. Or, you could give the world's most expensive camera to my neighbor and she still couldn't capture a decent shot (it's brutal looking at her stuff when they return from a trip).
     
    Tony Bensley, Mike Frezon and Brian L like this.
  5. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    Bokeh? There's Mike's new word that he learned today. Had to go look it up.

    Okeh? (as in Okeh Records). THAT I've heard of. :D

    But not bokeh. Until now.
     
  6. Brian L

    Brian L Producer

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    So I should probably cancel my order for those fancy French copper pans? :)
     
  7. Message #67 of 168 Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I like the phrase "yuck their yum." I've never heard it before

    In a forum like that, with 50,000 members, it's probably possible for people to pass over comments they don't like without losing their minds.

    Ugh, I've heard that so many times. Several years back I took a family portrait of neighbors for their family reunion. The guy's sister compiled them and commented on how the one I did was so much better than all the rest. My neighbor excitedly told me about her comment, and he just kept saying, "I figured it must be the camera. I told her it must be the camera." He kept saying it. He had absolutely zero idea how insulting he was being. I remember once when I was the go-to photographer for a local magazine's ads. A restaurant that was advertising with them had been directed to me and told the photography would be about $200, which is actually pretty cheap. The guy just went nuts and was ranting about "I have friends who have cameras" blah, blah. Of course, I had to bite my tongue, but this was, seriously, a Pasta restaurant. All dishes were pasta. I wanted to say "I have a stove and I can boil water. Why should I pay you $15 for boiled noodles?"

    Believe me, I often wish I'd never heard that damn word. Visit any photography forum and they are bokeh insane.
     
  8. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    The ironic thing about that situation is it takes an even more skilled and experienced photographer to shoot food items properly, as there is a lot involved in arranging and lighting the food so it looks good. It's something I certainly do not have the skills to do professionally.
     
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  9. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    So, I also have a pair of Canon 5D3's, and they are getting old in the tooth in some areas (average 100k clicks on them by now, I think). The lure of Mirrorless is there. Almost dipped in when the Sony A7III came out at the $2k price point, but a friend got that Sony A7III, so I tried it out, and I sort of hated the ergonomics of it (the smaller body form factor was awkward when coupled with a large lens with the wide aperture fostering so much bokehlicious potential... but I digress), and it was weird not being able to easily set my focus point (I suspect with more experience I would get used to the eye-detection AF, but not everything has an eye for the camera's AF to latch onto, so I was kinda flummoxed, but it curtailed my appetite for the Sony A7III for the time being).

    I'm waiting for the EOS R to get to version MK3 before jumping in, or if after some firmware updates that fix the AF on Canon's new mirrorless offering (early reports from Photokina say that the AF performace just isn't there yet).

    But what was sobering to me was that for me to get caught up to speed on the new bodies, I found out I'd be hating life if I had to post-process high resolution photo files (like 40mp+) because my 6-year old PC nearly choked on the one Sony A7RIII file I got to play with recently. My old PC does fine with the Canon 5D3 22mp files, but at 4 times the resolution of the Sony A7RIII photo files, my PC was struggling (mainly with the spot healing brush I use all the time). Plus having to probably get on the Adobe CC ($10/month at the moment, but they have the ability to jack up prices and hold our photos hostage at the new price point whenever they want) to deal with the new camera bodies and handling the RAW files from those new bodies (I know I can do an intermediary step of converting them to DNG files and then use my older version of LR/PS on the photo files of the new bodies, but that's a pain, and doubles my photo file storage overhead over time). So getting new camera bodies means a new PC, submission to the Adobe Creative Cloud scenario, probably new lenses (even with the lens adapter option in play)... ugh...
     
  10. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    Take a breath, Patrick.
     
  11. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    :dance::rock::drum::banana::dancing-banana-04::rolling-smiley:
     
  12. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Patrick,

    I am dealing with the RAW to DNG conversion issue with my Canon M50 mirrorless, which uses the new CR3 RAW file format. Neither Lightroom 6 nor DxO PhotoLab -- the two processing applications I use -- currently support the format, although I expect DxO to add support in the future (it will never happen with LR6, obviously). It does add a step, but hasn't been that big of a deal. I refuse to move to Adobe's subscription model. As for the storage space issue, I've just been deleting the RAW files after converting them to DNG. I know in theory I should save the RAW files in case I want to process them with something other than LR6 in the future, but I rarely revisit old RAW files, and I haven't shot anything yet with the M50 that I'll ever want to go back and re-process in the future anyway.

    The need for additional computing power is something I've considered a real downside to these new wave of extra high resolution cameras, whether the new Sonys or the Canon 5DR / 5DS line at 50MP or more. For what I shoot and print, I cannot see where I need anything higher resolution than my current Canon 5D3 at 22.3MP. My largest print size is 36x24, and the 5D3 is more than sufficient for that.
     
  13. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Studio Mogul

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    Yeah, a real eye-opener as to the true cost of simply moving to a new camera body as a lot of overhead costs get added to the mix if you've been running on an older system altogether. The larger sized files add to the data storage overhead twice fold (or quad-fold if I ended up saving both the RAWs and DNG's, I'm a packrat when it comes to saving my RAW files, I'm afraid).
     
  14. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    I know this ain't the GAS thread...

    But with all the talk earlier about good pictures being the product of the camera vs. photographer...

    What kind of differences would I be likely to find if I upgraded from my entry-level Rebel XS to something like the 5DIII? I've been thinking about maybe a new lens...but I wonder if I'd be better off spending my $$ on a better camera body instead. But maybe I'd just be getting in over my head.
     
  15. Message #75 of 168 Oct 12, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Mike,

    It really boils down to why you are thinking of upgrading, and what it is about your current setup that you find lacking. For example, if you want to shoot wildlife but are lacking reach, then a long telephoto lens may be the answer. If you are shooting a lot of people and want to be able to isolate your subject more, then a faster lens with a wider maximum aperture may be more appropriate. If you are struggling with auto focus tracking of moving subjects, noisy high ISO images, or cumbersome ergonomics while shooting, then a new body may be in order. If you really cannot think of an answer to my question, then you probably don't need to upgrade anything.


    One thing to beware of with the full frame 5D3 (which I own and love) is that it will not work with any Canon EF-S lenses, if you happen to have any of those with your Rebel system. So, the cost to move to a full frame body may involve spending more than you thought.

    With that being said, I am not a big fan of the Rebel bodies, as I find their ergonomics cumbersome compared with Canon's larger bodies. Another way to go, if you want a camera with a newer sensor, would be something like the Canon 7D Mark II or 80D. Both are still crop sensors, so would work with any current EF-S lenses you may own. They are larger bodies, with much better handling, IMO. I like to be able to make changes to settings without taking my eye off the viewfinder, and I find that very difficult with the Rebel series. With my 5D3 and 7D2, it's much easier -- plus the 7D2 has a great auto focus system for tracking moving subjects.
     
  16. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I have to look up Canon cameras, but the 5D3 seems like a mighty big jump from a Rebel.
     
  17. Mike Frezon

    Mike Frezon Moderator
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    Ding!

    That's been my main issue lately. Dogs and grandchildren don't sit still. And even when they do, I'm getting a lot of soft images lately. I've been using the AF (reduced to a single-dot in the center of the viewfinder to eliminate any chance of the camera from focusing on something other than the subject) but have been frustrated of late in finding that my pictures just aren't as sharp as I want them to be.

    I'll do some research on the 7D2.

    Do you guys recommend any particular websites to buy used gear?
     
  18. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    KEH, B&H, Adorama, in that order. there's always Amazon, but those are third party sellers, so you need to be cautious. You always have Amazon at your back, though, it someone pulls something.
     
  19. JohnRice

    JohnRice Executive Producer

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    I don't know about Canon's version of Nikon's 3D AF, and I haven't used it much on my D500, but when I have, it's been downright amazing. The focus sensor is automatically in the center of the image when you start, but as soon as you activate AF, it follows focus on the point it started on, even as it moves around the frame. I hope that makes sense. Of course, the D500 is an AF and action monster. But, that kind of feature is probably exactly what you want.
     
  20. Message #80 of 168 Oct 12, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    The auto focus system of the 7D2 is worlds better than your Rebel. It can be a little intimidating at first with all the possible settings, but once you get used to it the camera is easy to use and the performance is excellent. If you go in that direction, there are some tutorials I can point you to. I use my 7D2 almost exclusively for wildlife and sports, with my full frame 5D3 doing everything else -- unless I want to travel light and then use my mirrorless Canon M50.

    As for buying used, check out the Canon refurbished store. I have bought there a few times, and during sales their prices are similar to buying on eBay from an individual, but you get a warranty from Canon. Everything I have bought there has looked brand new. Right now they have the Canon 7D2 on sale for $1,199, which is $240 off their regular refurbished price.
     

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